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Thursday, March 24, 2005

30th anniversary of the Lebanese "civil" war

April 13, 2005 marks the 30th anniversary of the start of the "civil" war in Lebanon.

I would've loved to be in the country at the time; unfortunately, I will not be able to until May 26th. That's right, today I booked my one-way ticket to Beirut. The plane is scheduled to arrive at Beirut International Airport on May the 26th in the afternoon. I admit, though, that I had huge doubts about wanting to go back. This was mostly due to some offensive comments mainly on the LFPM (Lebanese "Free" "Patriotic" Movement) forum, but also from other Lebanese in general (mostly Christians from the "opposition" side), that I was not Lebanese. Those who don't know me and my emotional attachment to the country (and the war) might not understand how offensive and depressing such a comment is. But I will not go there, as this is not a personal blog. At any rate, I have decided that I will go back because it makes no difference what others tell me about what I am and what I am not. At the end of the day, if I identify as a Lebanese, who are they to tell me otherwise? I have lived all my life in Lebanon, unlike the majority of those "patriots" who claim I'm not Lebanese and should be kicked out. Welcome to fascist (aka "right wing") "Christian" Lebanon; and don't forget: "George W. Bush is number one in the world. He is late, but better late than never ... We want foreign intervention to get rid of the occupation, and to protect us. We want them to protect us because Christians are a minority."

Anyway, for those who are interested, on April 10, 2005 there is a 5km marathon in Beirut.

Comments:
Brother Dan, you are Lebanese, you are much more LEbanese than these fake "patriots" who are acting against the interest of Lebanon and who are sectarian to the core and they should be kicked out. The Armenians in Lebanon are Lebanese like anyone else, they contribute to the country like everyone else,don't listen to the right-wingers, if it was up to them all the muslims would be kicked out as well because the Lebanese muslims aren't Lebanese either according to many of these psychos.

they might not say it in public because they have no choice but to deal with us. I'm jealous, i'm trying to go to LEbanon as well, hopefully this summer, maybe we can get in touch, maybe. Will you be operating this blog from there?
 
Yeah, I know. They used to get to me, but not anymore. I've finally realised how idiotic they are. It seems to me they get their inspiration from "Israel".

Anyway, yes, I will be running this blog from there. Hopefully I'll be getting a domain name too. But for now it's staying on here. :)
 
Actually, the pullout is supported by not only Maronites and Armenians, but Sunni Lebanese as well. That puts pro-withdrawal citizens in the majority. Most of Lebanon wants Syria out.
 
Zionist please do not speak for my community, everybody wants the syrian secret police out but we don't agree with 1559, we know we are being used and we are not with the opposition, we support hizballah staying armed. The sunnis are the ones who always advocated unity with Syria, we just want to know the truth about hariri, we don't support the right-wing racist opposition, can you believe they were booing at Bahiya Hariri, Rafic hariris sister, when she gave a speech about Lebanon supports Syria and supports the Syrian struggle to get the golan heights back, and these christians booed here, it is a shame, they should have some respect, she just lost here brother, it shows they don't care about hariri and never did,they are just using his death.

We all want Syria out but we don't support US and Israeli goals in our region from Iraq to Lebanon. The oppositoin doesn't mind being used by imperialist but we sunnis do and we will fight any nation that tries to occupy or invade Syria. Syria and Lebanon are one.
 
"the pullout is supported by not only Maronites and Armenians, but Sunni Lebanese as well."

Here's an Armenian against the pullout and 1559. Just for ya. ;)
 
Syria's withdrawal is an international issue? How? Since the Christians who are the bulk of the opposition claim that the "president" during the "civil" war represented all the Lebanese, then since the president asked the Syrians in, would that not be an entirely internal issue, as opposed to one that needs to have the UN and other countries butt in? I was never a fan of double standards. The president either represented all the Lebanese, or he did not. Since the Christians claim he did, then it means that the Lebanese asked the Syrians to come in. So the Lebanese should ask them to leave too, rather than the UN, etc. Let's have a referendum and we'll see who's going to "win". What are they afraid of?

I am against the pullout because of the way it is being done: under international pressure. Let us have a referendum and we'll see what the people want. Estimates of number of people present during demonstrations should not and cannot decide what the majority of Lebanese want. And the majority of Lebanese are opposed to 1559, and not just its band on disarming militias, but also the fact that it meddles in Lebanon's affairs.
 
Yes dan i agree with you 100%. zionist are the only ones in the 21th century promoting colonialism.
 
"we support hizballah staying armed"

Then you support Syria's occupation, period. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

"zionist are the only ones in the 21th century promoting colonialism."

If Israel promots colonialism, so does the US, as well as every Arab state or militia that supports the destruction of Israel.
 
"Then you support Syria's occupation, period."

What does Hezballah have anything to do with Syria? The two are separate entities. You asked me a while ago if I've ever met an "Israeli Bedouin". Now I'll ask you the same question: Have you ever met a Hezballah member? Oh right, you wouldn't be here if you did. hahaha... You hate the fact that after 60 years of land theft, you are still being boycotted. You are still effectively shut out from most Arab countries, and the countries that you are not shut out from, you are subject to attacks (Taba, etc.) You are not wanted. Now go away.

Arab states support colonialism because they want to destroy "Israel"? Huh? What kind of "logic" is that? Those lands belonged to Arabs to begin with.
 
Btw, zionist, "Israeli" education must really suck. Can't you read, Intifada said "zionists", not "Israelis". That includes good ol' USA.
 
"What does Hezballah have anything to do with Syria?"

The Syrian army arms Hizbullah, plain and simple.

"You asked me a while ago if I've ever met an "Israeli Bedouin". Now I'll ask you the same question: Have you ever met a Hezballah member?"

I didn't ask you if you'd ever met a Bedouin Israeli, you made it clear you haven't. And you have the audacity to criticize my education, yet you clearly lack the ability to discern a question from a statement. Anyway, one doesn't need to have met a member of Hizbullah to understand who funds them monetarily and militarily. Iran and Syria have been open about it.

"You hate the fact that after 60 years of land theft"

There has been no 60 years of land theft. I admit, there have been individual cases, but not to the extent you claim (not even close).

"you are still being boycotted."

LOL. By who? Israel does business with virtually all of its neighbors.

"You are still effectively shut out from most Arab countries"

Countries like Egypt and Jordan? Give me a break.

"You are not wanted. Now go away."

Racist.

"Arab states support colonialism because they want to destroy "Israel"? Huh? What kind of "logic" is that? Those lands belonged to Arabs to begin with."

That would be colonialism, regardless.

"Btw, zionist, "Israeli" education must really suck. Can't you read, Intifada said "zionists", not "Israelis". That includes good ol' USA."

I warned you about making assumptions, they make you look dumb. I'm an American Jew, born and raised, you imbecile. However, I do plan on making aliyah eventually, but that's not for a couple years.
 
The Syrian army arms Hizbullah, plain and simple.

Source, please?

one doesn't need to have met a member of Hizbullah to understand who funds them monetarily and militarily.
But one needs to have met an "Israeli" Bedouin to understand their motivation for joining the I"D"F?

There has been no 60 years of land theft. I admit, there have been individual cases, but not to the extent you claim (not even close).
And there was no holocaust. I admit, there have been individual cases, but not to the extent you claim (not even close). You like that? I'm not so sure you would. But maybe you will. Because it will give you ammunition to further play the role of the victim.

LOL. By who? Israel does business with virtually all of its neighbors.
As I said, you should stop getting 99.99% of your "information" from "Israeli" websites. It's not good for the brain. Really.

Countries like Egypt and Jordan? Give me a break.
Egypt and Jordan are not "most Arab countries". Ooops, maybe the "Israeli" government should invest more in education than furthering the holocaust industry by building one museum after another.

Racist.
How am I racist? Zionism is not a race. Nor a religion for that matter. Go learn more about what true Judaism is all about.

That would be colonialism, regardless.
How would it be colonialism? That's like saying that if you steal my laptop if I try to get it back, I'm stealing from you. It never was YOURS to begin with!

I'm an American Jew, born and raised
I see, and how are you related to "Israel"?

aliyah
LOL.

OK, make aliyah. So you can give me an d many others the satisfaction of kicking you to wherever you came from. :)
 
"Hezbollah has no known links to Al-Qaida. Though Hezbollah has a Shi'ite ideology, this does not exclude it from co-operation with Sunni groups. However, Al-Qaida and the Taliban, which are respectively a Wahhabi and a Deobandi group, have long histories of conflict with Shia groups and with Iran in particular, Hezbollah's strongest backer. Hezbollah is closely allied with Iran and has a complex relationship with Syria. Hezbollah is strongly anti-Zionist, anti-West, and anti-Israeli.

It is widely believed that Hafez al-Assad and Hezbollah were closely linked; this did not significantly affect his relations with the rest of the world. Bashar al-Assad, his son and successor, has been subjected to sanctions by the US due to (among other things, such as occupying Lebanon) his continued support for Hezbollah, which it views as a terrorist organization."

Source: Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizbullah#Foreign_relations

"But one needs to have met an "Israeli" Bedouin to understand their motivation for joining the I"D"F?"

Did I say or imply this?

"And there was no holocaust."

The Holocaust, unlike this alleged mass land theft you love to rant about, is extremely verifiable.

"As I said, you should stop getting 99.99% of your "information" from "Israeli" websites. It's not good for the brain. Really."

Firstly, do not label a source unless you're prepared to debate it. Are you asserting that Israel doesn't do business with Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan? Secodly, you don't know where I get my information from, this is yet another unfounded claim.

"Egypt and Jordan are not "most Arab countries"."

Please, stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that most Arab countries are pro-Israel. Obviously that's not the case.

"How am I racist? Zionism is not a race. Nor a religion for that matter. Go learn more about what true Judaism is all about."

When you say shit like "you are nothings", "you aren't wanted" etc. about Jews, it's kind of obvious. And please, I've forgotten more about Judaism than you could ever aspire to know.

"How would it be colonialism?"

This is why I called you a dolt. There are around 20 or so Arab countries surrounding Israel, thus destroying Israel and turning it into another Arab state is colonialism. Either you're in desperate need of a course in poli sci - which is designed to help you interpret the political aspect of current events like the conflcit, btw - or you're being deliberately ignorant.

"That's like saying that if you steal my laptop if I try to get it back, I'm stealing from you. It never was YOURS to begin with!

Uh, let me explain it for you one more time... Early arrivals to the Holy Land bought and settled unoccupied land. Not only is that analogy stupid, it doesn't work.
 
It is widely believed that Hafez al-Assad and Hezbollah were closely linked
LMAO. So "widely believed" (by whom?) = proof?

The Holocaust, unlike this alleged mass land theft you love to rant about, is extremely verifiable.
Well, those "revisionists" beg to differ. Just like you beg to differ on very easily verifiable (and indeed verified) mass land-theft and ethnic cleansing.

Are you asserting that Israel doesn't do business with Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan?
"Israel" has no official economic contacts with Lebanon or Syria. Or any other Arab state for that matter, except Egypt and Jordan. The only "economic" "trade" that has taken place is the apple bussiness in the news a couple of weeks ago, and that was in occupied Golan and the sellers were not zionists.

When you say shit like "you are nothings", "you aren't wanted" etc. about Jews, it's kind of obvious.
Where did I say "you are nothings" about JEWS? I said it about zionists, not Jews. Stop putting words into my mouth.

There are around 20 or so Arab countries surrounding Israel, thus destroying Israel and turning it into another Arab state is colonialism.
Assuming that "Israel" ever belonged to this group that claims the Torah as a property deed. LOL. I don't need a course in "Political Science". But you do need a course in international law. International law does not care about your Torah as a "property deed", mate. Time to wake the fuck up. I think I'm gonna write my own holy book and then use it to take over my neighbour's house and car, etc. And then claim they never even existed, and that even if they did, they were living in house that belonged to me, and that I'd make the desert that is their backyard, bloom. Now wouldn't that be cool!

Early arrivals to the Holy Land bought and settled unoccupied land
Most of the land that is now "Israel" was NOT bought. Get that through your thick skull.
 
"Just like you beg to differ on very easily verifiable (and indeed verified) mass land-theft and ethnic cleansing. "

I haven't had the chance to beg to differ because you haven't verified it.

"Where did I say "you are nothings" about JEWS? I said it about zionists, not Jews. Stop putting words into my mouth."

We were discussing how the Jews built Israel, and you responded by saying "you are nothings".

"Assuming that "Israel" ever belonged to this group that claims the Torah as a property deed."

Jews have had a continuous presence in Israel for thousands of years. Interestingly, Palestinians are actually the descendants of Jews who converted to Christianity (the Romans allowed Christians to stay). Although they have Arab ancestry, they aren't true Arabs. They cluster closer to Jews than they do real Arabs (i.e. Saudis, Yemenites). The reason they aren't closer to Jews is, as I said, because they have Arab ancestry (as illustrated by elavated levels of EU10 in Palestinian populations).
 
We were discussing how the Jews built Israel, and you responded by saying "you are nothings".
My point was not about the Jews, but about the colonialists. There were Jews in Palestine long before your land-thieving kind arrived. If as you claim the "Jews" made the desert bloom, how come the Jews in Palestine long before your racist-fuck kind arrived didn't make the desert bloom? Or are they just not Jews? Ahh.

Jews have had a continuous presence in Israel for thousands of years.
Never argued that there were no Jews in PALESTINE (there was no "Israel").

Interestingly, Palestinians are actually the descendants of Jews
Oh oh, does that mean my Palestinian friend can claim the right to the land? Or is he not "chosen" enough?

Although they have Arab ancestry, they aren't true Arabs. They cluster closer to Jews than they do real Arabs (i.e. Saudis, Yemenites). The reason they aren't closer to Jews is, as I said, because they have Arab ancestry (as illustrated by elavated levels of EU10 in Palestinian populations).
Why does ancestry matter? Why would it? You're sounding just like nutcase Hitler. Maybe you will realise that when you stop reading so many "Israeli" websites. But I wouldn't be surprised, since you spend your time on Eugenics forums.
 
"There were Jews in Palestine long before your land-thieving kind arrived."

Which Jews are you referring to? Mizrahim numbered at about 200, because the Ottomans moved the bulk of their community to some of their other territories. Sephardim ("my kind") made aliyah in the 15th century after they were expelled from Iberia, some of them were also transferred elsewhere by the ruling power. There were also quite a few Ashkenazim there before the advent of Zionism. Point is, we're all Jews, we're all the same.

This whole "Jews and Arabs got along before zionists came" is a crock. Jews were treated very poorly in Arab areas (I say areas because there were no states, it was just Ottoman territory). The Turks, like I said, removed (I guess that would be an ethnic cleansing by your skewed logic) moved lots of Jews and replaced them with Muslims from the Balkans (e.g. Bosnians).

"Oh oh, does that mean my Palestinian friend can claim the right to the land?"

LOL! I forgot, you're not even Palestinian (or Arab?), you're just an Armenian-Brit. But yes, Palestinians have every right to live in the Holy Land, and Jordan is part of that land.

"You're sounding just like nutcase Hitler. Maybe you will realise that when you stop reading so many "Israeli" websites."

I was just elaborating further on the continuous Jewish presence in Israel. Also, I wanted to point out the similarities between Palestinians and Jews.

"But I wouldn't be surprised, since you spend your time on Eugenics forums."

WTF?! No the fuck I don't.
 
"my kind"
I was not refering to Jews when I said "your kind", so don't put words into my mouth. You know just as well as I do what I was refering to.

The Arabs and Jews got along better than any Arab and Jew ever will from this point on. And you've got no one but yourself to blame.

I forgot, you're not even Palestinian (or Arab?), you're just an Armenian-Brit.
Why does it matter what I am? You and your ancestors haven't set foot in "Israel" for thousands of years. What gives you any more "right" to talk about the conflict or argue about it than me? Your mythical book? Well, throw that in the sea, 'cos I don't care one iota about it.

But yes, Palestinians have every right to live in the Holy Land, and Jordan is part of that land.
And somehow you have the right to tell them where they have the right to live? You make Hitler look good.

I was just elaborating further on the continuous Jewish presence in Israel.
And what is that supposed to prove? Jews have also had a continuous Jewish presence in European countries and elsewhere. Does it mean that after 500 years you'd have the "right" to dispossess other groups of Americans because "you have had continuous presence in USA"? WTF?

Also, I wanted to point out the similarities between Palestinians and Jews.
Your point is? I never denied that Jews and Palestinians are unrelated. Most of today's Jews, however, are not in any way related to the Hebrews. Anyway, if they are so related, why do you support the dispossession of your brothers and sisters? Would you "take them "back" in" if they converted? Or are they no longer the right (or "chosen" as you like to call yourself) kind of people?
 
"Why does it matter what I am? You and your ancestors haven't set foot in "Israel" for thousands of years."

My ancestors have been there for the last 3,000 years.

"What gives you any more "right" to talk about the conflict or argue about it than me? Your mythical book? Well, throw that in the sea, 'cos I don't care one iota about it."

I'm a Jew, it's my birth right. I have relatives over there. I have a legitmate connection to the holy land. You're just an uberliberal European. You have no ties whatsoever to the Jewish homeland. Nobody cares about your opinion. Who the hell do you think you are? T.E. Lawrence? Find your own cause.

"And somehow you have the right to tell them where they have the right to live?"

Where did I claim to have that right?

"Does it mean that after 500 years you'd have the "right" to dispossess other groups of Americans because "you have had continuous presence in USA"? WTF?"

Hey, T.E. Lawrence. Jews have an ancestral and religious connection to Israel. It's the Jewish homeland. Besides, I don't hear you bitching about Macedonia. What about the Kurds and the Assyrians Don't they deserve their own states?

"Your point is? I never denied that Jews and Palestinians are unrelated."

Actually, we are related. As I said before, Palestinians cluster (genetically) closer to Jews and other Levantine groups than Arabs.

"Most of today's Jews, however, are not in any way related to the Hebrews."

That is incorrect. Even Ashkenazim (who have significant European admixture) have preserved the majority of their Jewish ancestry. Ever heard of the Cohen Modal Haplotype? Extensive Y-Chromosome analysis of Ashkenazic Jews reveals that they are paternally Middle Eastern:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/742430.stm

Palestinians, however, differ from other Arabs in some ways. As the web site for Harper’s Magazine reported, one study showed that Jews and Palestinians have common ancestry that is so recent that it is highly likely that at least some of the Palestinian blood actually descends from Jews. [3] Another study by New York University confirmed a remarkable similarity between Jewish and Palestinian genes. "Jews and Arabs are all really children of Abraham," said Dr. Harry Ostrer, director of the Human Genetics Program at New York University School of Medicine, who worked on the study. "And all have preserved their Middle Eastern genetic roots over 4,000 years. [4]

According to several other studies, Palestinians and Jews are genetically closer to each other than either is to the Arabs of Arabia or to Europeans [5]. A study of congenital deafness identified an allele limited to Palestinian and Jews of Ashkenazi origin (those who lived in Europe in recent centuries), suggesting a common origin. Furthermore, Y-chromosome polymorphism is very similar among Palestinians and Sephardic Jews.

http://globalpolitician.com/articles.asp?ID=246

A sample of 526 Y chromosomes representing six Middle Eastern populations...was analyzed for 13 binary polymorphisms and six microsatellite loci. The investigation of the genetic relationship among three Jewish communities revealed that Kurdish and Sephardic Jews were indistinguishable from one another, whereas both differed slightly, yet significantly, from Ashkenazi Jews.

(Nebel et al., Am J Hum Genet, 2001)
 
My ancestors have been there for the last 3,000 years.
So have many other groups at any given time. What is your point?

I'm a Jew, it's my birth right.
LMAO. "Birth right"? So if it's every person's birthright to live on the land where their ancestors have lived for thousands of years, why is it not the Palestinians' (who you claim are very close to the Jews in terms of genetics) "birth right" to live on that land?

I have relatives over there.
And I have relatives in 20 countries. Doesn't give me the "right" to demand citizenship from any of those countries, does it?

I have a legitmate connection to the holy land.
So have billions of Christians.

You're just an uberliberal European.
Uberliberal European? What is that supposed to mean? How is being liberal a bad thing?

You have no ties whatsoever to the Jewish homeland.
That is not the "Jewish homeland", moron. It's just another fucking piece of land. Get over it. Jesus Christ! (oops, did I offend you?)

Nobody cares about your opinion.
My opinion is more relevant than yours. At least I have spent 20 years in the region, which you haven't done.

Who the hell do you think you are?
A pro-Palestinian, and you hate it.

Where did I claim to have that right?
You just told me they can live in Jordan.

Jews have an ancestral and religious connection to Israel.
So do Christians.

It's the Jewish homeland.
Big fucking deal. It's the Palestinian homeland too. At least theirs is not a myth, it's based on real internationally recognised property deeds, while yours is based on some book you call the Torah.

Besides, I don't hear you bitching about Macedonia. What about the Kurds and the Assyrians Don't they deserve their own states?
I do not care much about states. No one has the "right" to a state. States are constructs, and no one has a "right" to them per se. It's not a natural right to have a state. But I don't expect your materialistic, greedy self to understand that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/742430.stm
What does that link "prove"? It proves nothing. It's an undeniable fact that most of today's Jews were Khazars who converted to Judaism.

As for the rest of the stuff, it's irrelevant. I never denied that many Jews are genetically close to Palestinians. End of story.
 
Your kind thrives only on PRIVILEGE, not EQUALITY.
 
Dan, this zionist is such a hypocrite, he is not from Palestine, he is an american and most probably his grandparents came from europe before they came to america.

The Palestinians are the true descendants of the hebrews if we want to play that game, it is not these european jews, the Palestinians are the descendants fo the original people of Palestine, along the years languages change and religion changes but they are still the descendants, they have more a right to own that land than any Jew from anywhere around the world.

Zionist you are a european not a middle easterner, nothing is wrong wtith being european but do not come and steal my land.
 
Exactly, Intifada... Anyway, I'm done arguing with him. As usual, any "discussion" with those "people" goes in circles and ends up in a last attempt to gain sympathy by mentioning that the Jews have nowhere to go and need their own state because they've been persecuted wherever they've set foot... We're not at that point yet, but I don't want it to go there so I'm going to stop replying to this "person's" posts.
 
"why is it not the Palestinians' (who you claim are very close to the Jews in terms of genetics) "birth right" to live on that land?"

I have repeatedly stated that the Palestinians have every right to live in the Holy Land.

"So do Christians."

The only Christians who have an ancestral connection to Israel are Palestinian Christians.

"What does that link "prove"?"

It proves that the majority of today's Jews can trace their ancestry back to Israel. So much for the Khazar theory.

"It's an undeniable fact that most of today's Jews were Khazars who converted to Judaism."

That theory is no longer plausible, and is not supported by modern population genetics. It's a ruse.

"As for the rest of the stuff, it's irrelevant. I never denied that many Jews are genetically close to Palestinians. End of story."

Most Jews are related to Palestians.

"The Palestinians are the true descendants of the hebrews if we want to play that game, it is not these european jews, the Palestinians are the descendants fo the original people of Palestine"

The closest living group to the Hebrews today are the Samaritans. After them, the Jews, then Syrians/Lebanese, and finally Palestinians. Palestinians have more European-specific DNA than other Levantine Arabs, likely due to the absorption of Bosnian Muslims and European Christians into their community. They also have significantly more sub-Saharan (meaning black-African) DNA than other Levantine Arabs. The Palestinian gene pool is diverse, more so than the Ashkenazic gene pool (which is matenally European, and paternally Middle Eastern).

Damn, it feels good to be right. Debating this stuff with two laymen is such a power trip. LOL!
 
"Zionist you are a european not a middle easterner, "

I didn't want to let it come to this, because I try not to associate myself with Syria, but my grandparents were from Damascus. I'm Sephardic. Bet you didn't see that coming.

"nothing is wrong wtith being european but do not come and steal my land."

LOL! You're trying so hard not to offend your friend.
 
I try not to associate myself with Syria, but my grandparents were from Damascus.
So much for patriotism. Now you see why Syria has no respect for your kind? You have on loyalty, and that is to your mythical-imaginary land-thieving country.

LOL! You're trying so hard not to offend your friend.
Offend? There's nothing offensive in what he said. I am not offended in any way. There's nothing wrong in being European. But there IS something wrong in supporting land theft (you do, not I). I never stole (nor advocated the such) any Arab's land. That is why I am respected and you never will be.

Now go away, troll.
 
Correction:

on = one*
 
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