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Wednesday, March 23, 2005

"Throw away ... the keys"

From the "Boker Tov" blog:
I wish they would start building a decent place for themselves instead of coveting what the Jews have built. [snip] I wish they would throw away -en masse- the keys they say are to their houses in Tel Aviv.

[snip]

Until then, I will consider the Palestinian Arabs in general as a threat to Jewish life. It's just common sense. Hullo, they shoot Jewish children in their beds at point blank range, don't they? Some of them do. Too many of them do.
Well, Anne, what can I say... I already commented, and I hope you would not delete my comment...
Throw away the keys to their homes and forget about it, you say? Why don't the Jews forget about the holocaust, then? Why do they want compensation? Why are they given back works of art stolen from their homes? I say, Jews should forget about what they lost 60 years ago, too. And when they can and do do that, you come back and tell me that the Palestinian people should throw away the keys to their homes and the deeds to their lands, and I will tell you that you are right.
And please, please, please, Anne, shooting Jewish children in their beds at point blank range? Last I checked, the ratio of Palestinian to Jewish children killed is about 6:1. As for not "coveting what the Jews have built", I believe Anne is trying to get across, without sounding as cliche, the common saying that "the Jews made the desert bloom". It all goes back to some racist notion that Palestinians were uncivilised, filthy nomads, until the Westernised, civilised Jews came to the land and made the desert bloom.. Ironically, this was the same mentality behind the treatment of the Native peoples in America. So much for Anne criticising neo-Nazis.

Comments:
Wait, the last time you checked was in 2000? A good four years of fighting has passed, you need to check again. Anne was correct when she said the ratio for Palestinian to Israeli chlidren killed is nearly 2/1 - with 80 on the Palestinian side, and 36 on the Israeli side.

"he common saying that "the Jews made the desert bloom". It all goes back to some racist notion that Palestinians were uncivilised, filthy nomads"

That's simply hilarious. First of all, how does one go about disproving the (factual) notion that the Jews built Israel by comparing Lebanese and Israeli agriculture? Secondly, those adjectives are from your keyboard, not Anne's. It just so happens that Bedouin Arabs are some of Israel's most patriotic citizens.
 
I am talking about 2000-2005. That's the ratio of Palestinian:"Israeli" children killed. And btw, there were many Arabs within the "Israel" group that were killed. So they weren't all Jewish, FYI.

"Anne was correct when she said the ratio for Palestinian to Israeli chlidren killed is nearly 2/1 - with 80 on the Palestinian side, and 36 on the Israeli side."

FYI, in 2004, there were only 11 "Israeli" children killed. Anne claimed the ratio AFTER May 2004 was 2:1. The ratio isn't that low even if you count from 2000 to 2004... In total, 118 "Israeli" children and 683 Palestinian children have been killed since Sept. 2000. 11 "Israelis" and 152 Palestinian children were killed in 2004. I don't know about you, but I've taken advanced math. Maybe you need to better your ratio-finding skills..

"That's simply hilarious. First of all, how does one go about disproving the (factual) notion that the Jews built Israel by comparing Lebanese and Israeli agriculture?"

Because you lump all Arabs into one group, and not only that, but use "Arabs" as a word that is meant to give away disgust at filthiness, etc. I've seen many of your kind, trust me. I know the mentality of the zionist. Palestine was not a "desert" before the Jews came in. Actually, the Jews did not come in, the colonialists came in. There were Jews there before the land thieves (like you) came in. And those "terrorist" Arabs were their neighbours and friends. Another thing to think about is how those "Jews" terrorised all of Palestine. The Haifa bombing, King David Hotel, just a few that come to mind. Making the desert bloom? Nah, not really. Of course, it's always easy to take over people's homes and say you built them and that those people never even existed.

Your ideologies that the Jews coming from outside were superior to the Palestinians (Muslims, Christians, and JEWS) are, well, simply racist.

"Bedouin Arabs are some of Israel's most patriotic citizens."

Oh, my bad. They are even more patriotic than the Jews. I mean, look at them, volunteering to serve in the I"D"F.... how very patriotic.... of course, we should never look at what motivates them to do so.... perhaps the answer lay in the fact that Bedouins and Arab poverty rates are triple that of Jews?
 
"And btw, there were many Arabs within the "Israel" group that were killed. So they weren't all Jewish, FYI."

Why does that matter? They were Israeli civilians, and they were killed by Palestinian terrorists.

"FYI, in 2004, there were only 11 "Israeli" children killed. Anne claimed the ratio AFTER May 2004 was 2:1."

Incorrect. She said that as of 2004, the ratio was nearly 2/1. In other words, from the beginning of the second initifada to may '04.

"In total, 118 "Israeli" children and 683 Palestinian children have been killed since Sept. 2000."

Wrong again. Children = 12 and under. Anyone older than 12 is not counted as a child.

"I don't know about you, but I've taken advanced math. Maybe you need to better your ratio-finding skills."

You should've taken poli sci, because you're understanding of the conflict is on par with that of a 5 year old's.

"Because you lump all Arabs into one group"

No, I don't.

"'ve seen many of your kind, trust me. I know the mentality of the zionist. Palestine was not a "desert" before the Jews came in. Actually, the Jews did not come in, the colonialists came in. There were Jews there before the land thieves (like you) came in."

I've never met you, you British dolt. So, kindly refrain from making anymore asinine assumptions.

"Palestine" wasn't one continuous barren wasteland, no, but much of it was desert land before the Jews arrived. This is indisputable.

"And those "terrorist" Arabs were their neighbours and friends."

Yea, 'cause everyone knows al-Husseini loved the Jews! There were some pro-Zionist Arabs during the turn of the century, though. Unfortunately, they were persecuted, much like Israeli-Arabs today (i.e. Palestinians who work with Israelis).

"Another thing to think about is how those "Jews" terrorised all of Palestine. The Haifa bombing, King David Hotel, just a few that come to mind."

Jewish extremists were generally looked down on by other Jews. They didn't have the support that Arab terrorists have today. By the way, those bombings targeted the British, not Arabs.

"Of course, it's always easy to take over people's homes and say you built them and that those people never even existed."

When did that happen? I defy you to name one example that supports your claim.

"Your ideologies that the Jews coming from outside were superior to the Palestinians (Muslims, Christians, and JEWS) are, well, simply racist."

I subscribe to no such ideology. And why the hell would I consider myself superior to another Jew? That makes absolutely no sense.

"Oh, my bad. They are even more patriotic than the Jews. I mean, look at them, volunteering to serve in the I"D"F.... how very patriotic.... of course, we should never look at what motivates them to do so.... perhaps the answer lay in the fact that Bedouins and Arab poverty rates are triple that of Jews?"

Evidently, you've never met a Bedouin Israeli (what a surprise!). What motivates them is their extreme patriotism. They have their own brigade, and often hold high positions in different branches of the Israeli military.
 
"Why does that matter? They were Israeli civilians, and they were killed by Palestinian terrorists."

It matters because Anne is whining about how those "terrorists" kill JEWISH children. I don't think she cares one iota about the non-Jewish children killed by the same "terrorists" she claims to resent because they are child-killers.

"Incorrect. She said that as of 2004, the ratio was nearly 2/1. In other words, from the beginning of the second initifada to may '04."

The ratio was not 2:1 even till 2004... 106 "Israeli" children (not counting 2004) as opposed to 501 Palestinian children. Calculate that ratio and come back and tell me if it's anywhere close to 2:1.

"Wrong again. Children = 12 and under. Anyone older than 12 is not counted as a child."

Wrong again. You really should change your sources and start looking at other (non-"Israeli") websites.

The Convention on the Rights of the Child defines as children all human beings under the age of 18, unless the relevant national laws recognize an earlier age of majority (Article 1).

I'm going by the standards set by your beloved UN.

"You should've taken poli sci, because you're understanding of the conflict is on par with that of a 5 year old's."

What does Poli Sci have anything to do with current affairs or POLITICS? Politics and Political Science are two different things, in case you did not know. But I'll blame your ignorance on the "Israeli" "education" system that spends more time demonising the Palestinians than teaching you what Political Science is all about.

"I've never met you, you British dolt."

Your words show your true colours, my friend.

""Palestine" wasn't one continuous barren wasteland, no, but much of it was desert land before the Jews arrived. This is indisputable."

I beg to differ. Your water theft might make you look so superior, but without all the water you stole, the Negev, and in fact all of "Israel" would be a wasteland at the moment. You are a nothing. You are nothings. And you know it. That is why you have a superiority complex.

"Israeli-Arabs today (i.e. Palestinians who work with Israelis)."

Oh, sorry, I guess "Israeli-Arabs" are not "Israelis", they are just Palestinians working with "Israelis". They are not equal. Because "Israel" is "supposed to be" a "Jewish state". Racist dolt.

"When did that happen? I defy you to name one example that supports your claim."

So you claim the land was uninhabited? What about Jerusalem? What happened there? Whose lands are those? Whose lands are being confiscated now? (You will say the settlers', but then again, that's just in your sick, always-victim-playing mind). Even your beloved UN admits that much of the land in what is now "Israel" belonged to Arabs. Where did so many refugees come from? The sea? What a moron.

"By the way, those bombings targeted the British, not Arabs."

And somehow that is legitimate?? Do you realise why you're so despised? It's your actions, not your so-called religious "beliefs". It's your arrogance and provocative nature. You make anti-Semites look good.

"What motivates them is their extreme patriotism."

What "patriotism"? Why would they be patriotic? Many "Israelis" are not as "patriotic" as you claim the Bedouins to be. Many "Israelis" refuse to serve in the "territories". Why don't the Bedouins? Are you telling me the Bedouins are "more Jewish than the Jews"? If yes, then don't they deserve more respect and economic help from the so-called "Israeli" government? Arsehole. Shove that so-called patriotism up your arse, because you might be fooling your fellow "zionists", but you ain't fooling me.
 
"The Convention on the Rights of the Child defines as children all human beings under the age of 18, unless the relevant national laws recognize an earlier age of majority (Article 1)."

For starters, note the last few words of that sentence. What you don't seem to understand is, 12 is the cut off age for one to be considered a legal combatant. Even a 12 year old with a gun isn't legally considered a combatant. Do you understand? Those 'children' above the age of 12 are counted either counted as unarmed non-combatants, or armed combatants.

"I'm going by the standards set by your beloved UN."

I disdain the UN, as do most Israelis. I don't know where you got this absurd idea that Americans and Israelis like the UN, it's quite the contrary.

"Your words show your true colours, my friend."

Uhh, is 'dolt' (in other words, dunce; idiot; moron) really that offensive to you? Did I hurt your feelings? Grow some testicles.

"I beg to differ. Your water theft might make you look so superior, but without all the water you stole, the Negev, and in fact all of "Israel" would be a wasteland at the moment. You are a nothing. You are nothings. And you know it. That is why you have a superiority complex."

I can't believe you had the nerve to call me a racist after writing that. Pot, meet kettle. Although, I'm not racist.

"Oh, sorry, I guess "Israeli-Arabs" are not "Israelis", they are just Palestinians working with "Israelis"."

Once again, your comprehension skills fail you. Where did I say or imply such a thing?

"They are not equal. Because "Israel" is "supposed to be" a "Jewish state". Racist dolt."

Israeli-Arabs are given every right that Israeli-Jews have. You have absolutely no basis for that claim.

"So you claim the land was uninhabited? "

Where did I claim that? I simply asked that you substantiate your obviously bs claim.

"What about Jerusalem? What happened there? Whose lands are those?"

Bad move. Jerusalem has enjoyed a Jewish majority since the 1840's, long before Zionism became popular. Swing and a miss! LOL!

"Where did so many refugees come from? The sea? What a moron."

They fled before and during the war of Independence. Where do you think?

"What "patriotism"? Why would they be patriotic?"

Apparently there was no love loss between them and the Palestinians.

"Are you telling me the Bedouins are "more Jewish than the Jews"?"

WTF?! That's the most nonsensical thing I've heard you say all day. As a matter of fact, that whole paragraph was retarded. Grow up.
 
For starters, note the last few words of that sentence. What you don't seem to understand is, 12 is the cut off age for one to be considered a legal combatant. Even a 12 year old with a gun isn't legally considered a combatant. Do you understand? Those 'children' above the age of 12 are counted either counted as unarmed non-combatants, or armed combatants.
What part of "For the purposes of the present Convention, a child means every human being below the age of eighteen years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier" do you not understand?

Link (check out Article 1)

What is the age of majority in "Israel"??? We're not talking about Bar/Bat Mitzvah here, so please stop thinking Jewish for a second. We're talking about international law.

I don't know where you got this absurd idea that Americans and Israelis like the UN, it's quite the contrary.
I don't know, maybe you should reconsider slapping people with the "argument" that the UN recognised the "Jewish people's right to have a state of their own" left and right, and then I won't say the UN is an entity that you love so much.

Uhh, is 'dolt' (in other words, dunce; idiot; moron) really that offensive to you? Did I hurt your feelings? Grow some testicles.
Oh no, a zionist just told me to "grow some testicles". What shall I do now?? :( Uhh, moron, it was not the word that I minded, it was the combination. How about I call you a Jewish arsehole? What does race/religion/etc. have anything to do with being an idiot, etc.? That's why I called you racist. But I don't expect your racist self to understand that.

I'm not racist.
Yes, and neo-Nazis claim they're not neo-Nazis.

Once again, your comprehension skills fail you. Where did I say or imply such a thing?
Listen, kid, don't battle semantics with me, because I can assure you I can kick your arse at that.

You equated "Israeli-Arabs" with "Palestinians who work with Israelis". That means you don't consider those "Israeli-Arabs" to be as "Israeli" as you claim Jews are, since you used one term in conjunction with another and then said those people work with "Israelis". Well, umm, they ARE "Israelis" too. Get it, JEWISH dolt?

Where did I claim that? I simply asked that you substantiate your obviously bs claim.
Concentrate, kid. You said Jews did not steal Arabs' land and property. Yet there are hundreds of thousands of refugees. How can it be that the Jews did not steal land and property, unless the houses of all those refugees are still unoccupied and the lands still unused and waiting for them. And I don't see that happening. Maybe I should read more "Israeli" websites then?

Jerusalem has enjoyed a Jewish majority since the 1840's, long before Zionism became popular.
Quite mistaken, sir. As I said, you should stop using so many "Israeli" websites as your sources. It's not good for the brain.

They fled before and during the war of Independence. Where do you think?
Awww, "war of independence". From whom? There was no "Israel" before. No "Israeli" people. They were all Palestinians. Jews, Christians, and Muslims. All of them. Stop spewing so much romanticised crap, kid.

WTF?! That's the most nonsensical thing I've heard you say all day. As a matter of fact, that whole paragraph was retarded. Grow up.
No, I'll grow some testicles. In the meantime, go read more of your "Israeli" CRAP. One day we'll see where you'll make "aliyah" to. Materialistic moron.
 
"What part of "For the purposes of the present Convention, a child means every human being below the age of eighteen years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier" do you not understand?"

I understood it perfectly. The sentence goes on to state that this holds "unless the relevant national laws recognize an earlier age of majority".

"I don't know, maybe you should reconsider slapping people with the "argument" that the UN recognised the "Jewish people's right to have a state of their own" left and right, and then I won't say the UN is an entity that you love so much"

What is it with you and assumptions? I haven't used that argument in my debate with you, anot once.

"What does race/religion/etc. have anything to do with being an idiot, etc.?"

Aren't you Armenian? I was referring to your nationality. Way to jump the gun; you were just itching to bring my ethnicity into this, weren't ya?

"Listen, kid, don't battle semantics with me, because I can assure you I can kick your arse at that."

I should hope so, you being 3 years older than I am and everything. Anyway, I'm majoring in biological anthropology, not writing.

"Listen, kid, don't battle semantics with me, because I can assure you I can kick your arse at that."

No I didn't. I used that as an example, and referred to Israeli-Arabs as Palestinians so as not to be redundant.

"You said Jews did not steal Arabs' land and property."

I said there have been isolated incidents.

"Yet there are hundreds of thousands of refugees. How can it be that the Jews did not steal land and property, unless the houses of all those refugees are still unoccupied and the lands still unused and waiting for them."

They left during the war of independence. There are tons of sources documenting Arab departure from the holy ladn at that time.

They lost their land when they left. Departees were fully aware that their land would be confiscated (by either side) when they fled. Most live happily in Jordan today. The only place where there are actually big groups of refugees is Lebanon, and their children are counted as refugees (which is ridiculous IMO), hence the reason there are so many.

"Quite mistaken, sir. As I said, you should stop using so many "Israeli" websites as your sources. It's not good for the brain."

Wrong again, kofer. Wikipedia is not an Israeli page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem#Demographics

Any credible source you check will confirm this, btw. It's based on the first official census of Jerusalem (1844). Oddly enough, it was conducted by the Ottomans.

"Materialistic moron."

Zing! Hahaha, that was so out of context and nonsensical it was almost a nonsiquitur. The extent of your stupidity is nothing short of amazing.
 
Since there is a talk about forgetting, why don’t Jews forget that generous Jehovah promised them the land from the Euphrates to the Nile?
 
I understood it perfectly. The sentence goes on to state that this holds "unless the relevant national laws recognize an earlier age of majority".
What is the "age of majority" in "Israel"?

Aren't you Armenian? I was referring to your nationality. Way to jump the gun; you were just itching to bring my ethnicity into this, weren't ya?
Nationality? You insult a nationality? Then why do you have problems with me insulting "Israelis"?

I said there have been isolated incidents.
"Isolated incidents"? Yes, and there were "isolated incidents" of Jews being persecuted and murdered during WWII. Seriously, it's time you came up with better "arguments".

They left during the war of independence.
*yawn*

Most live happily in Jordan today.
Happily? Wow.... You're such a racist fuck, it's not even funny. I suppose you have met a Palestinian refugee in Jordan though...?

Why is it ridiculous that their children are called refugees? Don't descendents of holocaust victims get compensation? What a racist fuck you are.

Since when is Wikipedia (which has mostly zionist takes on the conflict) the ultimate source on Jerusalem demographics? First of all, 42% of the Jerusalem subdistrict was Muslim. 62% of the Jerusalem district was Muslim. As for land ownership, 84% of Jerusalem was owned by Arabs. Source: A Survey of Palestine (prepared in 1946 for the UNSCOP).
 
"Seriously, it's time you came up with better "arguments"."

The Holocaust is verifiable. Why is it so hard for you to substantiate your claim that there was mass land theft?

"Happily? Wow.... You're such a racist fuck, it's not even funny."

How is that racist? The Palestinian I know (Christians and Muslims) from Jordan are upper class and happy.

"Don't descendents of holocaust victims get compensation?"

No.

"Since when is Wikipedia (which has mostly zionist takes on the conflict) the ultimate source on Jerusalem demographics?"

First of all, wikipedia is a neutral, peer-reviewed website. Second of all, the information found there is based on the first official census of Jerusalem, which is pretty damn reliable.

"First of all, 42% of the Jerusalem subdistrict was Muslim. 62% of the Jerusalem district was Muslim. As for land ownership, 84% of Jerusalem was owned by Arabs. Source: A Survey of Palestine (prepared in 1946 for the UNSCOP)."

What year was this study conducted? By who? What is it based on? Link?

Wherever its from, I can tell you right now that it's not accepted by mainstream scholars because it obviously conflicts with the political concensus.
 
The Holocaust is verifiable. Why is it so hard for you to substantiate your claim that there was mass land theft?
It is not hard for me to. But would you sit with a denialist and argue the validity of the gas chambers? Lipstadt argues that doing so gives the other side's views legitimacy.

How is that racist? The Palestinian I know (Christians and Muslims) from Jordan are upper class and happy.
Oh, upper class and happy.. and you're lower class and sad? Is that why you want the land? Oh.... ok, well, I'll hand over the UK to umm, let's see, France, cos I'm upper class and happy. And since when is one uppser-class, happy person representative of 1 million refugees?

No.
You're lying again. I think it's the only thing you're good at. (but not too good).

"The government and financial institutions are paying $6,000 each to Holocaust survivors and their descendents in order to make reparations." Link

What year was this study conducted? By who? What is it based on? Link?
I mentioned the source. It was a survey conducted under the British Mandate and submitted to the UNSCOP in 1947.

Wherever its from, I can tell you right now that it's not accepted by mainstream scholars because it obviously conflicts with the political concensus.
Mainstream scholars? Political concensus? What does politics have anything to do with factual information? You just proved my point. Denialism has entered into your blood stream.
 
"The government and financial institutions are paying $6,000 each to Holocaust survivors and their descendents in order to make reparations."

Right, but the only descendants getting paid are the ones whose parents are deceased. Palestinians have one of the highest birth rates in the world, and they are the only refugee group whose descendants are figured into the refugee population.

"I mentioned the source. It was a survey conducted under the British Mandate and submitted to the UNSCOP in 1947."

Please leave a link, it's only fair. I always try to back up my argument with credible sources, so I leave links. How can I determine is this is legit when I can't read it in its entirety?
 
the only descendants getting paid are the ones whose parents are deceased.
That is a load of bullshit. It says "Holocaust survivors and their descendents". Nowhere does it say "deceased Holocaust survivors' descendents".

Please leave a link, it's only fair.
You wanted a source, I cited it (as any decent scholar would do). Go to the library, get it, and read it. It doesn't have to be on the net in order to be considered credible.
 
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